KV max capacity increase?

Kit · 07-03-09, 07:18 AM

I was wondering if there was a recommended maximum capacity increase from 2.1?

Is it the same block as the 2226cc KV?

pimpdriver · 07-03-09, 08:19 AM

first rule of tuning:

chuck it out and put a bigger one in.

What do the hill climb rules allow?

Fit a turbo engine (hint: I have one for sale, with the rest of the car - see cars for sale section).

Puglife · 07-03-09, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kit

I was wondering if there was a recommended maximum capacity increase from 2.1?

Is it the same block as the 2226cc KV?

all kv engines are 2226cc, you can bore and stroke to 2.5 or maximum of 2.6 iirc something around 2594cc rings a bell.... but you'll spend alot of money doing it....

as mentioned what regulations do you need to adhere to regards engine modification...

Kit · 07-03-09, 04:17 PM

Capacity increases are free, but the engine has to be one that was part of the original engine line-up for that model. Also if I use a turbo it adds 1400cc (afaik) onto my original capacity for classification purposes, putting me up against all manner of exotic machinery. Thanks for the offer pimp, but if I wanted a turbo then i'd be using my impreza type ra

Can you recommend anyone who can do the work, and how much is it likely to cost?

MikeNZ · 07-03-09, 07:05 PM

C&R Enterprises in Nottingham has extensive experience in rebuilding and upgrading 5-cyl engines.

The proprietor Steve Cresswell is very knowledgable and I have selected him to do the big valve conversion on my KV.

A 2.5 KV conversion needs a new crank that is 1000 quid by itself. The engine will be 5 - 6,000 total depending on what you have done. It is a lot of money. You will get a superb engine which will last forever. It will give 175 - 190 bhp depending on cam, and huge torque.

There is also a 170bhp 2.3 conversion, and he can rebuild to a variety of spec. I am getting a big valve head with flowed manifolds and Schrick cam which gives around 160bhp with some loss of low down torque. A capacity increase would fix the torque loss.

I decided not to do the 2.5 as I have only had the car a few months, there is nothing wrong with the bottom end and I've not driven it much and I didn't want to put that much money into a car I didn't know inside out - it might yet need other work - and haven't had any use out of it yet.

moonwatcher · 07-03-09, 07:39 PM

Why not get a 2461cc AAT diesel block/crank, new JE pistons, custom rods and a 20v petrol head and turbo and you can get 500bhp

Kit · 07-03-09, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeNZ

C&R Enterprises in Nottingham has extensive experience in rebuilding and upgrading 5-cyl engines.

The proprietor Steve Cresswell is very knowledgable and I have selected him to do the big valve conversion on my KV.

A 2.5 KV conversion needs a new crank that is 1000 quid by itself. The engine will be 5 - 6,000 total depending on what you have done. It is a lot of money. You will get a superb engine which will last forever. It will give 175 - 190 bhp depending on cam, and huge torque.

There is also a 170bhp 2.3 conversion, and he can rebuild to a variety of spec. I am getting a big valve head with flowed manifolds and Schrick cam which gives around 160bhp with some loss of low down torque. A capacity increase would fix the torque loss.

I decided not to do the 2.5 as I have only had the car a few months, there is nothing wrong with the bottom end and I've not driven it much and I didn't want to put that much money into a car I didn't know inside out - it might yet need other work - and haven't had any use out of it yet.

Thanks Mike, i'll get in touch on Monday and see what he says.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonwatcher

Why not get a 2461cc AAT diesel block/crank, new JE pistons, custom rods and a 20v petrol head and turbo and you can get 500bhp

I somehow doubt the gearbox would handle that

Isimmo · 07-03-09, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BasilNZ

The gearbox will almost certainly handle that, it's not an Impreza!

These gearboxes are commonly used with 500hp engines. In fact this family of gearboxes is used on many 1000bhp 20v conversions and commonly without strengthening.

Basil's not joking either... Jogi730 (Chris) on here ran 537bhp through a standard type 85 box/Drivetrain on numerous sprints without failure. And there are many, many other examples of your 80Q drivetrain shrugging off +500bhp output for years...

To go the turbo route, a pretty much standard ABY 20vT engine from an S2 will run 350bhp without bottom end rebuild... (I've driven a 400bhp S2 with standard bottom end). Then, as stated above, go for the rods/pistons etc, map sensor, intercooler, turbo and ECU and, well the world is your limit... In a 1300kg car it'll go vertically when you dump the clutch, not horizontally.

Kit · 08-03-09, 08:02 AM

hmm....

So I can use my KK head with the AAT diesel block and does it have the same engine mounts/bolts up to my gearbox?

If I used that engine, I would need 500bhp to compete with the stuff I would be up against in the supermodified class.

Puglife · 08-03-09, 11:34 AM

Stick to KV lump, if you go 20vT you'll be looking closer to £7-8k to get 500bhp reliably if someone else is building the engine for you....

Gearboxes as said are robust and rarely break, the weak part is the driveshafts in many cases....

07-03-09, 07:39 PM	#6
moonwatcher 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Barrow in Furness, Cumbria Posts: 2,049	Why not get a 2461cc AAT diesel block/crank, new JE pistons, custom rods and a 20v petrol head and turbo and you can get 500bhp __________________ Coupe Quattro 1985

08-03-09, 11:34 AM	#10
Puglife ==>PUGSPORT!<== Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Leyland Posts: 1,544	Stick to KV lump, if you go 20vT you'll be looking closer to £7-8k to get 500bhp reliably if someone else is building the engine for you.... Gearboxes as said are robust and rarely break, the weak part is the driveshafts in many cases.... __________________ 1986 UR Quattro - (1982) Lombard RAC Group 4 recreation - #24 H.Demuth/J.Daniels 1981 VW mk1 golf GTi - now 5cylinder and RWD.

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07-03-09, 08:19 AM	#2
pimpdriver Devon Pastie Muncher Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calne Wiltshire Posts: 7,530	first rule of tuning: chuck it out and put a bigger one in. What do the hill climb rules allow? Fit a turbo engine (hint: I have one for sale, with the rest of the car - see cars for sale section).

07-03-09, 04:17 PM	#4
Kit Grown up member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dubai, brit expat Posts: 102	Capacity increases are free, but the engine has to be one that was part of the original engine line-up for that model. Also if I use a turbo it adds 1400cc (afaik) onto my original capacity for classification purposes, putting me up against all manner of exotic machinery. Thanks for the offer pimp, but if I wanted a turbo then i'd be using my impreza type ra Can you recommend anyone who can do the work, and how much is it likely to cost?

07-03-09, 07:05 PM	#5
MikeNZ Grown up member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 246	C&R Enterprises in Nottingham has extensive experience in rebuilding and upgrading 5-cyl engines. The proprietor Steve Cresswell is very knowledgable and I have selected him to do the big valve conversion on my KV. A 2.5 KV conversion needs a new crank that is 1000 quid by itself. The engine will be 5 - 6,000 total depending on what you have done. It is a lot of money. You will get a superb engine which will last forever. It will give 175 - 190 bhp depending on cam, and huge torque. There is also a 170bhp 2.3 conversion, and he can rebuild to a variety of spec. I am getting a big valve head with flowed manifolds and Schrick cam which gives around 160bhp with some loss of low down torque. A capacity increase would fix the torque loss. I decided not to do the 2.5 as I have only had the car a few months, there is nothing wrong with the bottom end and I've not driven it much and I didn't want to put that much money into a car I didn't know inside out - it might yet need other work - and haven't had any use out of it yet.

08-03-09, 08:02 AM	#9
Kit Grown up member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dubai, brit expat Posts: 102	hmm.... So I can use my KK head with the AAT diesel block and does it have the same engine mounts/bolts up to my gearbox? If I used that engine, I would need 500bhp to compete with the stuff I would be up against in the supermodified class.