1990 90 2.3E (NG) running problem?

[dgacampbell]

Hmmmm I think the ignition control unit is on a bracket right beside the coil.

No idea where the injection control unit is, will have a look tomorrow (in bed now).

That is a good question. I will also check tomorrow.

I had went into the house, had my dinner, probably 30-40mins then went out to go to the shop, started the car (still with the csv plug disconnected) and drove, the car felt a bit rough for about 20 seconds or so, and then drove fine, better than it has in a while.

I imagine I would have problems starting and running from cold without plugging it back in tomorrow??

[msh]

CSV is being held open during cold start and for approx 10 seconds afterwards.

Your problem resembles the one which resulted in my car being off the road for nearly two years, only I had managed to bend one pin in injection control unit connector, shorting ISV and CSV outputs. Unlike you, however, I'm not looking for faults by disconnecting something, so I found it out when I wanted to try another control unit, a couple of months later and on the day when technical inspection expired

Originally Posted by dgacampbell

Hmmmm I think the ignition control unit is on a bracket right beside the coil.

In engine compartment?

[dgacampbell]

Ok so the part I was looking at isn't the ignition control module.

Anyone able to enlighten me as to where the ignition control and injection control modules live in my car?


TIA

Dan.

[jamiecoysh]

the ignition control module is bolted to the coil pass on the injection one?

it should be noted that the other day I found a small vacuum pipe on my 3A engine that had collapsed in on itself ( bit like the main crankcase breather) that is notorious for collapsing on the NG engine. My idle was all over the place cutting out and bogging down. The car appeared to start better with the CSV and run unplugged. As the pipe had collapsed it wasn't leaking air so I never recognised it. It wasn't until last week when it started to leak that I noticed what had been going on. Now after changing it everything is perfect idle, drivability. Just saying have you fully checked all vacuum pipes etc because I was going down the route of changing the metering head etc.

[dgacampbell]

Thanks jamiecoysh,

I'm not ruling it out, but I cannot find any pipes either collapsed or leaking, visually at least.

I haven' had the chance yet to get the csv removed and check is it leaking either.

I had driven the car a fair bit Friday evening with no problems.

And most of the day yesterday, almost 250 miles.

Only at one point when stopping at a set of traffic lights coming into town did the car play up.

Now for about 10 minutes before this I decided it would be fun to drive it like I stole it, all was going well until I slowed down as the town was getting near, at said set of traffic lights the idle went down to about 200 rpm and I had no power to pull off. At this point turning the car off and back on again cured the problem whatever it was, and it did not resurface again the rest of the day.

So I don't know if the increased fuel pressure from hard driving had caused more fuel to be forced through a leaking csv, or what the problem is, I would just be guessing.

I'm trying to find someone reasonably local to me who actually knows and understands the engine to have a look at, so I don't have a re-run of the last 6 weeks where my car sat in a mechanics yard and the best advice I got was to just drive it with the pressure regulator unplugged. I got further myself (with the help and advice from you guys) in 3 hours on Friday afternoon.

[msh]

Ignition control unit, mounted next to passenger's left feet behind visibly enlarged trim piece, on LHD B3/B4, could be there as well in RHD cars or might be on the opposite side of car. Fuel injection control unit is located behind plastic trim between glovebox and floor, on LHD cars, behind heater in a holder, also might be similar in RHD cars.

Originally Posted by dgacampbell

Now for about 10 minutes before this I decided it would be fun to drive it like I stole it, all was going well until I slowed down as the town was getting near, at said set of traffic lights the idle went down to about 200 rpm and I had no power to pull off. At this point turning the car off and back on again cured the problem whatever it was, and it did not resurface again the rest of the day.

With CSV unplugged or plugged?

If CSV would leak, you would have very rich mixture all the time and unplugging control pressure regulator wouldn't improve anything. KE-jetronic has rather stable system pressure, unlike EFI, which normally varies probably in 0,1-0,2 bar rate at maximum, or even less. If unplugging something that is used by ECU to adjust the way how engine works, makes difference, then likely there's something with wiring, sensors or ECU itself. Getting advice to unplug control pressure regulator is, khem, normal, the same happens here, the national difference is that over here drivers of such cars couldn't afford much [where the opposite is true - like diesel drivers - there also situation is opposite, with diagnostic and chiptuning available almost everywhere], while in UK such cars are almost gone.

And crakcase breather tube which could collapse, mentioned by jamiecoysh, IIRC there was originally rather large piece of rubber between crankcase outlet and that long metal tube, which has since been replaced by metal part on all the cars I've seen, mine including.

[dgacampbell]

Ok thanks,

I think I remember seeing control units when I was running wiring for Alarm, stereo system years back.

Csv has been unplugged from Friday.

Surprisingly I have had no problems starting the car from cold.

My car still has the original rubber crankcase breather hose, but it is in good condition, hasn't went soft yet.

I have in the past also had to change those to the newer metal replacement part on other 90's.

I will be in a spot of bother when it does go as they are now NLA.

Like the drivers of such cars in your country, I can't afford much either.

The car I had got as a spare is now out of mot and would not be economically mot'd again so worth only scrap value of £53.

All very frustrating

[dgacampbell]

Ok, I had a thought.............

You should see the smoke cloud pass your direction shortly lol.

I went out and cleaned all the various electrical connectors and terminals in the engine bay at least with electrical contact cleaner.

started and ran the car up to the point where the fan comes on.

Somewhere between starting and the fan coming on I decided just for giggles to check the voltage across the still unconnected csv plug........

According to my trusty yet probably not all that accurate multimeter it was reading between 9 and 12 volts pretty consistently for the 10 or so minutes I left it connected.

Now unless i'm wrong the csv may still be leaking as it has always taken considerably longer to start when warm than cold, but I'm guessing the problem is elsewhere that it is not turning off now???

[msh]

Just get to the injection control unit [the one which isn't in the picture and inspect it and it's connector - although you can do that for ignition control unit as well]. Also inspect wiring.

Being able to start without CSV is no wonder, at temperatures experienced usually in UK, although CSV usually is being used.

As for "not being able to afford much" - quite often new oxygen sensor and/or knock sensor are out of their budget.

[dgacampbell]

Ok guy's,

I have yet to get dismantling the inside of the car in search of the injection module. The weather has not allowed for it.

In the time being can anyone tell me what this plug I have disconnected in the picture below is for???



TIA

Dan.