alloy quattro engine

[LYT4X]

FWIW, Audi didn't just put the 200 alloy blocks into ur's. Some ended up in 100 q turbos too. The one I know of being replaced without the customers knowledge was a 100qt and that information came from the chief mechanic at the main dealers.

[Roger Galvin]

I've never encountered such an installation and am struggling to see how it was possible. The WR (whether alloy or steel) has a compression ratio of 7.0:1 installing such a unit in an Audi 100 quattro turbo would simply not work. The MC unit (2226cc) fitted to the 100qt sold in the UK from 1989 through to 1990 starting at chassis 44K 038101 onwards was driven by a MAC 14 ECU and had twin knock sensors to cope with the compression ratio which I believe was around 8.8:1 (or higher) as it was for the 1B engines fitted to the later 200qt.

I can't accept that any production line 100qt built in 1989 had an alloy engine from a WR quattro with the wrong compression ratio built 6 years after homologation. Even if one were to consider the possibility that the alloy engine was fitted to a 200qt from 1985 which would originally have had a 2144cc KG engine the compression ration would be wrong, the KG ran at 8.2 or 8.6:1 (I can't remember which). Whether the alloy block has anywhere to attach the single knock sensor to communicate with the MAC 05 ECU I can't say without looking at the two side by side. But again I can't see how it would ever run correctly. I'm aware that people have tried the inverse and installed a KG engine in a quattro (WR) but that results in overboost due to the compression being too high. A standard alloy WR in a 200qt would probably struggle to develop sufficient boost until well up the rev range, how the knock sensor would behave is difficult to comprehend. The knock sensor would cause issues unless a WR MAC01B ECU was used and the knock sensor made redundant.

Hmm, thought provoking though, thanks for that one John.

[butch]

they 100% had wr iron motors fitted in them, they were in very early cars for a very short period. they have no knock sensors and probably a WR ecu was used. The engine code is a WJ

[a1quattro]

hi many thanks for all the responce . A few of you know that i rally my quattro [ rallyrayread] we are currently doing a championship [tarmac] acsmc , we are currently 2nd in the big boys 4wd/turbo class and 6th o/a in the championship . we were leading but the gearbox broke causing us to miss 2 events. i do own a aklloy block which i purchased from the late gary midwinter , the same week he sadly passed way [ very sad] it was sold to me as needing just a liner replaced, but after word got around i was imformed that the block needed a lot more work than just a liner. in fact the liner which had already been machined out had been done so off center. i decided to get the other 4 liners removed . the block seems to have been overbord in the past , therefore the cylinder walls between each cylinder are very very thin. i have taken the block to 4 or 5 engineering companys incl cappricorn [f1/wrc experts] at first they thought they could help . Then after measuring the block with state of the art gizmos decided it was to risky. so im no further forward and poss £1200 out of pocket , but i still think some one can save my block therefore i havny given up , but may be easier to find another alloy block

[Isimmo]

Ray, just a thought, but wasn't some of the Volvo/Ford group 5 pot blocks Alloy? Just wondering if it'd be easier to adapt a block to a gearbox and engine mounts rather than find an original alloy block? Just a thought.

[a1quattro]

my car currently weighs 1150 kg , i have a few other mods planned to deduct 15 -20kgs. but if i can use the alloy block saving a further 20kgs i will have the car very close to my target weight of 1100kgs . i want the alloy block for the same reason audi did , to win events . A few people i have spoken to [incl keith murrey] that have driven rally quattros with a alloy block say you realy can feel the difference welst turning in. i know these engines wont do high mileage [some do] i will prob only do 10 rallys per year = maybe 1500 miles pa . The top running escort mk2 rally cars now run millingtoin engines which are a alloy block version of the cosworth sierra engine , these cost around £15k and need a rebuild [ i think every 3 or 4 ,000 miles ] rallying is not cheep even at club/national level ,,wish it was . due to rally rules on turbo cars ,i have to run a turbo restrictor keeping power to around a max of 320 bhp , when audi used them they were 500+bhp and the rallys were proper rallys lasting hundreds of miles each event so if i ever get a block it will have a easy life

[john johnson]

You'd only get a second hand millington for 15k , they are circa 23 -25 plus vat new ( bonkers )

[a1quattro]

hi Isimmo i know about volvo alloy blocks i think a few or at least one have been fitted into a rallycross audi, i wouldnt want to go down that route as to many things would need changing. The way i look at it is, audi made a alloy grp B[wcr] rally engine and that is what i want . one other option is as 4v6 said , it may be cheeper to get a new alloy block cnc machined. i freind [ forum member ] already has all the data for this to be done . i think from memmory each bare block would cost £2500 we would probley need 10 orders to do it for this price , so lets have some names down of anyone interested . please excuse my crap spelling

[msh]

Originally Posted by Roger Galvin

I've never encountered such an installation and am struggling to see how it was possible. The WR (whether alloy or steel) has a compression ratio of 7.0:1 installing such a unit in an Audi 100 quattro turbo would simply not work. The MC unit (2226cc) fitted to the 100qt sold in the UK from 1989 through to 1990 starting at chassis 44K 038101 onwards was driven by a MAC 14 ECU and had twin knock sensors to cope with the compression ratio which I believe was around 8.8:1 (or higher) as it was for the 1B engines fitted to the later 200qt.

I can't accept that any production line 100qt built in 1989 had an alloy engine from a WR quattro with the wrong compression ratio built 6 years after homologation. Even if one were to consider the possibility that the alloy engine was fitted to a 200qt from 1985 which would originally have had a 2144cc KG engine the compression ration would be wrong, the KG ran at 8.2 or 8.6:1 (I can't remember which). Whether the alloy block has anywhere to attach the single knock sensor to communicate with the MAC 05 ECU I can't say without looking at the two side by side. But again I can't see how it would ever run correctly. I'm aware that people have tried the inverse and installed a KG engine in a quattro (WR) but that results in overboost due to the compression being too high. A standard alloy WR in a 200qt would probably struggle to develop sufficient boost until well up the rev range, how the knock sensor would behave is difficult to comprehend. The knock sensor would cause issues unless a WR MAC01B ECU was used and the knock sensor made redundant.

Hmm, thought provoking though, thanks for that one John.

How about early MC? It also had low compression ratio

[LYT4X]

Originally Posted by Roger Galvin

Hmm, thought provoking though, thanks for that one John.

Just checked with the source in question...... My bad!

The (historical) discussion revolved around a number of things including early 100's, 200's & ur's and my recolection is flawed. It was a ur after all.....

Sorry.