How to id ex-rally cars

rattysplit · 25-07-20, 09:31 PM

Hello!

Is there any way to tell for sure if car is built new to a rally car? I am buying an 1983 80 quattro that was built by David Sutton(or that is what I am told) to Mouton. It was for making notes for competitions. I tried to send email to Sutton but got no reply.

In the 90s it was used to group n rallying. It have a very stiff bilstein shocks with english markings, bolted roll-gage, the drivers seat have Moutons name and the is David Sutton on rear screen.

The same seller have also a 80 quattro group-a shell with a strange vin-number..

Groundhog · 26-07-20, 08:45 AM

As with anything old and potentially valuable you need documented provenance to assure value and authenticity. Very few ‘rally cars’ have this and I can assure you there are plenty out there that are very much like Triggers brush from Fools and Horses.
Back to your car, we did have a 80q back then as a reci car, I seem to recal it was red in colour, I can’t recall it being used by Mouton though. It is very unlikely the seat is genuine, only the actual rally car would have the drivers own seat fitted,the reci car would have had a generic seat. The Sutton sticker is a good sign if genuine ( does it look aged?) Sutton used to put a ‘dealer’ type sticker in The rear window of all the rally cars ( little known fun fact)

rattysplit · 26-07-20, 09:01 AM

Thanks for reply! The car is red indeed and the sticker in the rear window looks like it was fitted in the 80s. One funny thing I noticed it has a MPH speedometer.

Does Sutton have any list of the VIN-numbers of the cars that were modified?

It is quite difficult to identify the car because it doesnt have much rally-spec parts being used. I think the suspension and roll-cage being all? The motor was stock KK?

Groundhog · 26-07-20, 10:42 AM

David Sutton Motorsport went bust ( although there are other David Sutton businesses still operating)so it is unlikely any record of cars that were modified survived other than in his head or recorded by outside sources. A reci car is unlikely to have any surviving record other than with relevant government organisation. Reci cars were generally stock other than roll cage, suspension and wheels/tyres to suit stages. They were not just reserved for reci work they would have been used to transport parts, personal, equipment, trips to the chip shop etc etc. While interesting now it would have been considered a disposable item of no significance in the day so any records unlikely. The car was sold to a local Northampton amateur driver by the name of Ian Drummond but I know he didn’t keep it long.
Another fun fact while we had the car it was allocated the reg No AUD 180 (Audi 80)

Isimmo · 26-07-20, 10:54 AM

This is an interesting read on DSMotorsport if you’re interested. (Martyn, you can ignore the link....

)

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...and-glory-days

rattysplit · 26-07-20, 11:12 AM

So it was registered in street use, I thought it was rally-use only. Is there goverment records of registered cars in England?

It would be great to know how the car got to Finland. I know it was rallyed here in 94. But where it was before that..

steveb · 26-07-20, 11:31 AM

If you do an HPI check it should tell you what reg numbers the car has had, there is also a part that asks you to confirm the chassis number

rattysplit · 07-09-20, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

David Sutton Motorsport went bust ( although there are other David Sutton businesses still operating)so it is unlikely any record of cars that were modified survived other than in his head or recorded by outside sources. A reci car is unlikely to have any surviving record other than with relevant government organisation. Reci cars were generally stock other than roll cage, suspension and wheels/tyres to suit stages. They were not just reserved for reci work they would have been used to transport parts, personal, equipment, trips to the chip shop etc etc. While interesting now it would have been considered a disposable item of no significance in the day so any records unlikely. The car was sold to a local Northampton amateur driver by the name of Ian Drummond but I know he didn’t keep it long.
Another fun fact while we had the car it was allocated the reg No AUD 180 (Audi 80)

Is there any chance the reg plate was AUD180B?

steveb · 07-09-20, 08:22 PM

AUD 180B tax expired in 1987

Details below

Vehicle Details
Vehicle make AUDI
Date of first registration May 1984
Year of manufacture 1983
Cylinder capacity 2144 cc
CO₂ emissions Not available
Fuel type PETROL
Euro status Not available
Real Driving Emissions (RDE) Not available
Export marker No
Vehicle status Untaxed
Vehicle colour RED
Vehicle type approval Not available
Wheelplan 2 AXLE RIGID BODY
Revenue weight Not available
Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 23rd October 1984

26-07-20, 10:54 AM	#5
Isimmo Super Moderator Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sissix-by-the-sea Posts: 15,218	This is an interesting read on DSMotorsport if you’re interested. (Martyn, you can ignore the link....) https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...and-glory-days __________________ 1985 WR quattro, 1985 20vT RallyRep, 1993 MTM ABY S2 Avant. 2010 S3 Sportback.

26-07-20, 11:31 AM	#7
steveb Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Berkshire Posts: 1,155	If you do an HPI check it should tell you what reg numbers the car has had, there is also a part that asks you to confirm the chassis number __________________ [FONT] '76 Leyland Princess 2200 HLS '79 Scirocco storm '84 WR '89 coupe quattro '01 A2 1.4 TDI SE '14 A3 1.4 TFSI COD [/color][/size][/font]

07-09-20, 08:22 PM	#9
steveb Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Berkshire Posts: 1,155	AUD 180B tax expired in 1987 Details below Vehicle Details Vehicle make AUDI Date of first registration May 1984 Year of manufacture 1983 Cylinder capacity 2144 cc CO₂ emissions Not available Fuel type PETROL Euro status Not available Real Driving Emissions (RDE) Not available Export marker No Vehicle status Untaxed Vehicle colour RED Vehicle type approval Not available Wheelplan 2 AXLE RIGID BODY Revenue weight Not available Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 23rd October 1984 __________________ [FONT] '76 Leyland Princess 2200 HLS '79 Scirocco storm '84 WR '89 coupe quattro '01 A2 1.4 TDI SE '14 A3 1.4 TFSI COD [/color][/size][/font]

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26-07-20, 08:45 AM	#2
Groundhog Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 143	As with anything old and potentially valuable you need documented provenance to assure value and authenticity. Very few ‘rally cars’ have this and I can assure you there are plenty out there that are very much like Triggers brush from Fools and Horses. Back to your car, we did have a 80q back then as a reci car, I seem to recal it was red in colour, I can’t recall it being used by Mouton though. It is very unlikely the seat is genuine, only the actual rally car would have the drivers own seat fitted,the reci car would have had a generic seat. The Sutton sticker is a good sign if genuine ( does it look aged?) Sutton used to put a ‘dealer’ type sticker in The rear window of all the rally cars ( little known fun fact)

26-07-20, 09:01 AM	#3
rattysplit Grown up member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 21	Thanks for reply! The car is red indeed and the sticker in the rear window looks like it was fitted in the 80s. One funny thing I noticed it has a MPH speedometer. Does Sutton have any list of the VIN-numbers of the cars that were modified? It is quite difficult to identify the car because it doesnt have much rally-spec parts being used. I think the suspension and roll-cage being all? The motor was stock KK?

26-07-20, 10:42 AM	#4
Groundhog Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 143	David Sutton Motorsport went bust ( although there are other David Sutton businesses still operating)so it is unlikely any record of cars that were modified survived other than in his head or recorded by outside sources. A reci car is unlikely to have any surviving record other than with relevant government organisation. Reci cars were generally stock other than roll cage, suspension and wheels/tyres to suit stages. They were not just reserved for reci work they would have been used to transport parts, personal, equipment, trips to the chip shop etc etc. While interesting now it would have been considered a disposable item of no significance in the day so any records unlikely. The car was sold to a local Northampton amateur driver by the name of Ian Drummond but I know he didn’t keep it long. Another fun fact while we had the car it was allocated the reg No AUD 180 (Audi 80)

26-07-20, 11:12 AM	#6
rattysplit Grown up member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 21	So it was registered in street use, I thought it was rally-use only. Is there goverment records of registered cars in England? It would be great to know how the car got to Finland. I know it was rallyed here in 94. But where it was before that..